I think why we see tortured existence more is that it allows people to dump cards like anger, wonder, valor, etc. into their graveyards while bringing back creature cards that are generally useful.
Here?s an open forum question:
Consider all of the following black enchantments which can recur creatures from your graveyard to your hand and/or play multiple times:
Recurring Nightmare B2 Exodus Rare
Sacrifice a creature, Return Recurring Nightmare to owner's hand: Put target creature card from your graveyard into play. Play this ability as a sorcery.
Oversold Cemetery B1 Onslaught Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have four or more creature cards in your graveyard, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Diabolic Servitude B3 Urza's Saga Uncommon
When ~this~ comes into play, choose target creature card in your graveyard and put that creature into play. When the chosen creature is put into a graveyard, remove the creature from the game and return Diabolic Servitude to owner's hand. When Diabolic Servitude leaves play, remove the chosen creature from the game.
Strands of Night BB2 Weatherlight Uncommon
BB, Pay 2 life, Sacrifice a swamp: Put target creature card from your graveyard into play.
Haunted Crossroads B2 Mercadian Masques Uncommon
B: Put target creature card from your graveyard on top of your library.
Tortured Existence B Stronghold Common
B, Choose and discard a creature card. Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Phyrexian Reclamation B Urza's Legacy Uncommon
B1, Pay 2 life: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Dawn of the Dead BBB2 Torment Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to play. That creature gains haste until end of turn. Remove it from the game at end of turn.
If I had to rank these ?continuous? black creature recursion enchantments, Id probably rank them like this. Obviously Resurring Nightmare rocks,
However, I see Tortured Existence used on our casual play quite frequently, and it is also mentioned in the Essentials and almost essentials list. Looking at this selection of renewable black creature recursion enchantments there appear to be several other enchantments which I would prefer rather than Tortured Existence.
Why is this so?
What have you discovered by playing Tortured Existence that makes it better than the others?
Or are the other cards being used as well and I just don?t notice them?
I think why we see tortured existence more is that it allows people to dump cards like anger, wonder, valor, etc. into their graveyards while bringing back creature cards that are generally useful.
I was thinking the same thing actually. it's also the cheepest over all. but I dunno, i'm probably wrong, considering I tend to have downs syndrome.
Truth be told, I think Haunted Crossroads might be better for the Essentials. Tortured Existence really grants creature quality. Pitch a mana fixer, get a Bane, ect... Haunted Crossroads will recur without any predisposition. Since the Essentials is quite creature light (28% by volume I believe) it can be difficult to have a pitch at times. The Almost Essentials would probably be a better home having somewhere around 42% creatures.
Tortured Existence isnt exactly "climbing up the charts" for me.
First, Recurring Nightmare and Oversold Cemetery are both in the Essentials. Diabolic Servitude is in the Almost Essentials. Rec and OC are used by others in the group, but less frequently because they are rare instead of common.
Bret's point is a quite valid one. Additionally, you won't lose threshold by using it. Into the hand is much better than top of the library because you get it now. It also doesn't replace a draw. Another factor is that it can enable madness. No life loss or land sac means it can be repeatedly used in various ways.
I might play Strands in a mono black deck, but most of my 250's aren't black enough to use it. I can't guarantee having a bunch of swamps to sac. Also the life loss is a turn off.
Crossroads is great, but I'd rather have a return to hand than a top of library. Besides Volrath's Stronghold duplicates this effect on a permanent type that is less easily destroyed (usually).
Dawn of the Dead really seems like it wasnts a deck built around it. Very combo-y and not as good for a general utility recursion.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahhh, Thanks for your thoughts.Originally posted by kerbythepurplecow:
First, Recurring Nightmare and Oversold Cemetery are both in the Essentials. Diabolic Servitude is in the Almost Essentials. Rec and OC are used by others in the group, but less frequently because they are rare instead of common.
I think I can validate my internal ranking for Recurring Nightmare, Cemetary, and Diabolic Servitude as #1 2 and 3 now.
I didnt think of Tortured Existence's synergy with Incarnations and madness, two mechanics I dont really explore very much other than Anger. (Actually, I only use Anger in my Living Death 250, becuase its a combo facilitator.) In a 600+ card megadeck, I dont count on combo too much.
I still think Haunted Crossroads has its place though. The card adavantage is the same if you ignore the madness synergies. I would rather Crossorads in my upkeep and set up the draw rather risk not having that creature in my hand to discard to Tortured Existence. Crossroads is more reliable, IMO.
I think Strands is great too, but I see the Double B dawback. You need lots of black, and lolts of swamps to make it effective. I wouldnt sweat the 2 life loss though. You can do the effect as a fast-effect, and put up a chump blocker (at worst) when someone attacks you with a 3 power critter. You'll come out even in life and maybe even on card advantage if your recurred creature doesnt die from the block.
I dont like Dawn of the Dead either. It just came up on my search for renewable black creature recursion enchantments. Triple B is too harsh.
Rec. Nightmare is good ... but you can only use it at sorcery speed. Tortured existance just has way too many uses. So it doesn't put a creature DIRECTLY into play. Who cares? I'd rather have the graveyard manipulation any day. Pitch madness or incarnations or even huge casting cost creatures into the yard to bring whatever you need to be useful right then (creature killer, mana fixer, card drawer, etc). Keep on bringing back Tribe Elders EVERY TURN to fix/build the mana base ... MULTIPLE TIMES PER TURN eventually. People target something in your yard to remove, pay a black to say "Don't think so B*tch!" at instant speed! Better than saying which is better ... run BOTH with a TON of creatures!!! T.Exist puts it in the yard, Rec.Night brings it back.
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